One of the reasons I posted the Nakba article was to show the similarities between the so-called "Palestinians" bogus claims and the so-called "two-house-Ephramite" bogus claims.
Just like the Nakba-the story of the "Palestinian refugees"-is a complete fraud, so are the fantastic claims of the "two house Ephramites." The fraud that is perpetrated on unsuspecting believers is enjoing some measures of success whithin Messianic circles. The "Ephramites" managed to deceive a sizable amount of Messianic believers that they somehow hold the right of return to 10/12 part of the land of Israel.
Just as the so-called "Palestinians" cannot prove there was ever a "Palestinian" sovereign state with its own government, so the "ephramites" cannot prove they are "Ephramites" and will tell you this with a straight face. But of course they know precisely who is from the tribe of Judah.
Both groups deny my people and my country. They could not get through the door with the hazy "British Israelite" debacle (Herbert armstrong's church just disintegrated), so now they try to get in through the window with this "two house" meshugas...
Maybe the so-called "Palestinians" and the so-called "Ephramites" can form their own state? after all, both have the same beliefs about Israel and the Jews. I think they desrve each other, how about you?
Dan, just noticed your photo here. Didn't make you out to be a lover of small, fluffy dogs! LOL.
ReplyDeleteOk. Here's my take on this as a 2 House guy myself).
I do believe that Ezekiel 37 is a prophecy that has yet to take place. There is some Jewish support for this idea that northern Israel never fully returned, both old (Josephus) and new (Lazy Brody).
I do *not* believe people claiming Ephraim descent and claim a right to Eretz Israel because of it, have any ground. Even more egregious since these same people, as you point out, will gladly say they have no proof. If a person claiming to be an Ephraimite said, "I am going to displace this Jew, because the land is rightfully mine", I would totally rebuke that person.
My 2 House views are really gentiles are grafted into the commonwealth of Israel, and that one great day, God will bring out of the nations even those Israelites who were scattered -- Ezekiel and Hosea prophecies coming to life. When the time comes, all will come up to Israel to worship the King. Of course, this includes not just Jacob, but all the gentile nations as well.
So, Dan, with that said, should I move in with the Palestinians? :grin:
Judah,
ReplyDeleteI know you are of the moderate stream (Using derek's label) of the 2 House. that moderate stream was forced to be formed because the identity problem the "Ephramites" have.
I totally agree with your Rom. 11 and Eph. 2 interpretation, but the Ezk. prophecy Ch. 37 is taken out of context. Ch. 36 is also part of the prophecy, and V. 24-28 are of most importance. when read in detail they show that God will bring Israel back to the land in UNBELIEF. Only AFTER He brings them back He will cleanse them, and put His spirit in them. That fact of course excludes the "Ephramites" since they are all believer now.
But if you look the situation today in the land of Israel you will find that 99% of the people there are not believers. In my opinion this is a much better picture that the "Ephramites" present.
I actually once had a 2 houser tell me: "Well, when the Arabs start killing you all, then you will call us for help..." Says Volumes, no?
As a Messianic whose wife has lived with the Palestinians for approximately six months--working with non-profits and NGO's involved with non-violent resistance to the unlawful Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories--I assert that I find the Palestinian Christian and Muslim cultures to be far more righteous the the mainstream Israeli culture. To deny the Palestinian's nationalistic aspirations is dehumanizing and appalling. I stand for a one-state with a unified Israel-Palestine (under whatever name) in which the nationalistic aspirations of Jew and Arab can be achieved under a multi-ethnic constitution. Israel and the USA are currently the most significant obstacles to such an accomplishment.
ReplyDeleteDan, I accept the best of Israeli scholarship and not the well-parroted lies of the supposed glorious founding of Israel. Have you read Segev or Morris?
ReplyDeleteI insist on Palestinian sovereignty, of course....just as I insist on Jewish-Israeli sovereignty. The problem is when people, like you are here, make this into a tribalistic battle between bloods. for what it matters, it matters none, I am American, live in Chicago and used to be part of an Orthodox Jewish community. Oh, and what does your reference to the Koran mean? What bearing does the Koran have on this? Does the fact that most Palestinians believe the Koran mean that they are less than deserving of basic human rights in your thinking?
ReplyDeleteTzuriel,
ReplyDeleteone more tome..You need to brush up on your history.
There was never, and there is not now a "palestinian" nation or people...Hello!!
There is a country for them, it was formed for that purpose, and it is called JORDEN. You can try to prove it wrong until you are blue in the face.....
Hello Dan,
ReplyDeleteYour reasoning would likewise invalidate United States nationalism. The fact that there never was a Palestinian state *does not* justify the deprivation of human rights (e.g., water, freedom of mobility, etc.), past and present ethnic cleansing, and the apartheid wall. If I used the same logic as your Jordan statement, you would accuse me of unfounded antisemitism. Apply equal weights and standards, my friend, and stop promoting a theology of hatred against the Palestinian Christian and Muslim oppressed.